(Thanks to Paul for transcribing the events)
Oakhurst Residents Association
Chairman: Jeff Hill
Secretary: Steph Exell
Committee: Henri Mandikutse
Alison Miles
Rob Nyman
Andrew Oakes
Brychan Travers
Minutes of Public Meeting
7.30pm on 11th January 2011 at Oakhurst Community Primary School
In attendance:
Chair: Steph Exell
Committee: Henry Mandikutse
Andrew Oakes
Brychan Travers
Committee
Assistant: Paul Exell
Dale Burr: Head of Oakhurst Community Primary School
85 signed-in residents of Oakhurst and north Swindon
Media representatives from the Link Magazine and the Swindon Advertiser
Apologies for absence: Jeff Hill (Chair of ORA)
Alison Miles (Committee Member)
Rob Nyman (Committee Member)
Guests:
Cllr Peter Heaton-Jones
Cllr Peter Stoddart
Cllr Vera Tomlinson
Phil Smith, SBC Strategic Policy Manager
James Jackson, SBC Principal Transport Officer
Colin Botter, SBC Senior Engineer (Highways)
Steph Exell welcomed Councillors, Officers and residents and introduced purpose of meeting (including an outline provided by Jeff Hill). She highlighted some of the main concerns of the ORA:
- Volume of traffic
- Safety issues
- Shortage of school places both primary and secondary
- Access to doctors, dentists, shops, etc
- Increase in noise
- Local shops overcrowded
The other members of the panel were then invited to say a few words.
Phil Smith – Role of Planning Department is to steer through policy. Where are we in terms of planning in Swindon and with this proposed development in particular? First we need a policy in place to deliver what is required in Swindon. Swindon Borough Council has a Core Strategy, which has been impacted by government policy. Latest draft is due to go to SBC Cabinet next week before going out for public consultation. This Core Strategy does include development at the Tadpole Farm site. Second is an actual planning application for the Tadpole Farm site – this is in the hands of Crest Nicholson and they can put one in at any time. That is why SBC are trying to get the Core Strategy plan in place. Indications are that the planning application will be submitted this year. What the application will say is still unknown, but it is likely to be in accord with Core Strategy – if it is not then we will have grounds for refusal of the plan. Formal consultation on the Core Strategy will start in March 2011. Equally, when the planning application arrives then there is a statutory period for people to submit comments about the plans for consideration when the planning application is considered.
James Jackson – Primarily we are here to listen and to answer questions from the floor and to highlight the high level strategy for roads, land allocations around the Borough and their impact on existing parts of Swindon. That is the process being worked through with developers, both to north of Swindon and other areas. Developers have already taken on board a number of issues raised by Councillors during earlier negotiations.
Cllr Vera Tomlinson – Abbey Meads Councillors are very concerned about this application, they were elected to represent residents and they take that duty very seriously. The Councillors are not here to make speeches about a planning application that is not yet in – but if there are issues / questions that residents want taken up, then please raise them. She is the vice chair of Planning Committee and will speak on behalf of residents about the application at Planning Committee. All of the Ward Councillors will be knocking on doors later in the year to get views of residents.
Floor – A question regarding the rate of sale of new houses in Wichelstowe & do we really need these houses? Resident commented that he saw a lot of houses for sale in North Swindon but did not see many moving.
Phil Smith – Yes, in short, we do need the new houses due to population growth and change in lifestyle (e.g. solo living, people living longer etc.) SBC have done their own assessments / forecasts of housing need – they estimate 19,000 more houses will be needed by 2026. The process with regards to the Core Strategy is that once it has been put out for consultation, it is up to people to look at it, make whatever comments they feel are needed and the Core Strategy will then be revised in light of these comments. It will then be put to the Government Inspectorate for inquiry – after input from representatives from community, developers, Council, etc they will review the figures, plans etc contained in the Core Strategy.
Floor –are there limitations in the Core Strategy with regards to the use of Tadpole Farm?
Phil Smith – there are constraints such as that adequate provision must be made for schools, shops etc and it must have a northern route to link to the tunnel under A419 and another one to Oakhurst Way.
Steph Exell – that is our main concern with this proposed development – human nature is such that people will take the shortest route to where they want to go. They will not go all the way up to the A419 to come back down Tadpole Lane or Thamesdown Drive.
Floor – Old Core Strategy is still valid even with all of the scathing remarks that have been made about it, so how much bad comment against the Core Strategy is needed to actually get Tadpole Farm removed from the new Core Strategy?
Phil Smith - ultimately it is a political decision. To give an example, the level and quality of responses with regards to Addinsell Road made members change the proposal. Wherever development goes in there will be opposition from someone – the Officers role is to make a purely technical analysis of where houses will go – there are no easy answers. This results in a recommendation being made to SBC Cabinet.
Cllr Vera Tomlinson – whilst we value the work of the planning / highways officers, at the end of the day it is the Councillors that make the final decision.
Floor – We expect Tadpole Farm development to go ahead, Oakhurst Way is already very difficult to cross now, if you start adding more cars the road will become a nightmare.
Floor – Concerns about use of Garsington to get traffic off of the estate as well.
Cllr Vera Tomlinson – this issue is already being looked into.
Floor - Redhouse Resident Association representative is here to make sure that we do not torpedo each other – we need to stand together against the developers or they will get their own way.
Steph Exell – ORA welcomes anyone from the RRA to our meetings and we couldn’t agree with you more. We will work together with any community group in the area/Swindon on this issue.
Floor – concerned that when traffic starts piling through the roads it might reduce the value of houses as they are on a rat run – is there any thought to compensation to residents who may see the value of their houses being affected?.
Floor – when we first moved in eight years ago, Oakhurst was not planned to be connected to Tadpole Lane. Suddenly a connection was opened up – what do the residents have to do to get this link closed off? It was in our deeds that the road would not be opened up.
Steph Exell – I agree, large proportion of traffic passing through the Oakhurst roads is not local traffic. It is simply using Oakhurst as a bypass to get from the A419 to West Swindon and across to Purton /Cricklade /Orbital Park and the town centre.
James Jackson – sorry, can’t answer as to why it was opened up.
Cllr Vera Tomlinson – can I have possibly have copy of that part of the house deeds that covered the non-linking of Oakhurst Way to Tadpole Lane?
Floor - originally 10,400 houses proposed for North Swindon – it is nearly double that now. Has a big concern about numbers of houses growing in future. Thamesdown Drive was originally planned as a local road and it is now a controlled bypass to all intents and purposes. Serious concerns about final number of houses. Second concern is flooding – culverts within 9 inches of flooding in July the other year – ditches are all silted up. What will happen if Tadpole Farm is built on – what about run-off water that will naturally flow into the River Ray? Wichelstowe is another estate that drains into River Ray. There are concerns about flooding at Cricklade if the River Ray is worked on. We should make developers fund ditch clearance for the next fifty years. Third concern is the speed limit on Tadpole Lane as traffic is far too fast.
Phil Smith – can I make a correction about numbers? Northern development is still only about 10,000 houses. Flooding points are well made – with the planning application there will have to be a full flood risk assessment and this will ensure that necessary measures are put in place. It was a very valid point about ditches clogged up.
Steph Exell – example of Moredon / Haydon Wick flooding due to run-off water from North Swindon development.
Cllr Vera Tomlinson – likes the idea of 50 year maintenance contract – North Swindon MP Justin Tomlinson has already talked in Parliament about bonds for developers to ensure things done.
Floor – talking about access to the A419 is all well and good, but what about people that need access to the town centre and the motorway? Dual carriageway down Thamesdown Drive becomes single carriageway through West Swindon. This causes a bottleneck – there are already long queues to get into town.
Floor – it was originally planned to extend Thamesdown to Bruce St to ease traffic flow but it never happened.
Steph Exell – funding never arrived for the planned road from central Government funds.
Floor – flooding question – lives near Mayfly facing the flood plain. The river backed up last June / July – the whole field flooded, then it flooded across the road and then flowed back to the river. Second concern is the proposed access route. Has there been a feasibility study on who would actually use it? Who would use it to drive twice the distance to get to somewhere if there was an option to cut directly to where they wanted to go?
James Jackson – current proposal would be to potentially close part of Tadpole Lane or make it green route to make it a less attractive option for people to use.
Floor – won’t this just force even more traffic through the existing estates?
James Jackson – the devil is always in the detail – need to get the balance right.
Cllr Vera Tomlinson – the planned link road was primarily to accommodate site construction traffic as they do not want this heavy traffic on estate roads.
Floor – Tadpole already very over-used.
Steph Exell – if we are being told that the extra traffic is not coming until later, it is just as bad as it coming now as you know it is coming at some point.
Floor – panel said there were current transport issues in north Swindon. Could you tell us what they are?
James Jackson – one of the big issues was related to parking. People are also frustrated by queues at southern end of North Swindon, i.e. links to West Swindon. There are a number of options – the originally planned major road scheme is no longer affordable. A lot of the work is being done around providing facilities so that residents can do what they need / want to do locally without having to travel to do it (e.g. sports facilities, shops, schools). These will continue to be issues and we are looking at the improvements that can be done.
Cllr Peter Heaton-Jones – the link to Mead Way at the bottom of Thamesdown Drive where it drops from two lanes to one lane is an issue. For information the cost of building the link from Thamesdown Drive to Bruce Street was around £100m.
Floor – Tadpole Farm is my concern. I use both the route up to the A419 and over the railway bridge going the other way. If traffic increases, will safety over the bridge be improved? Also traffic at the junction at end of this road – traffic to Purton, the cut through to Cricklade and North Swindon is already very dangerous and can only get worse.
James Jackson – we will be considering this.
Steph Exell – I went to the West Swindon Forum last night – they do not want 175 homes at Hook. I am concerned that once houses are built over the Tadpole Lane buffer, then it may not stop. We need to get to grips with overall planning approach around the whole of Swindon – we don’t want to push a problem out of one area of Swindon into another. Need an overarching policy to look at the growth of Swindon in a coherent way. Swindon is not the dumping ground for Wiltshire Council developments. Also most of the roads in North Swindon are not adopted yet, yet we are still paying full council tax without getting a full service from the Council. The Council are not keen to move adoptions on as that means taking on the cost of maintenance in a cash strapped environment.
Colin Botter – with regards to adoptions, SBC have a process to go through with developers, they need to work through parcels to get access to others. Larger roads before the roads that come off of them.
Cllr Vera Tomlinson – I say this with tongue in cheek – Steph Exell was a Councillor until recently, so can I ask her a question - what did she do to get the areas adopted while she was on the Council and Planning Committee?
Steph Exell – I did raise the issue within the Conservative Group at least twice.
Floor – don’t go there, that is in the past – we do not want a bun fight here.
Floor – when the planning application comes in, traffic will be a key issue. As a lay person, will residents get to review the figures? Oakhurst Way will be busier – at what point does the traffic level get unacceptable in the eyes of Highways?
James Jackson – SBC will look at the assessment, primarily based on junction capacity. There is a formula / system for this. They can assess the junctions to see if they can cope with the traffic volume.
Floor – but this is just based on models and assumptions, e.g. number of cars per household etc.
James Jackson – each junction is assessed on its own merits. Lights can be phased to try to get optimum capacity for a junction. There is a balancing act.
Floor – so you are talking about this like it is a tap – you can turn the tap on faster to get traffic volume through – but we do not want the tap opened wide.
James Jackson – we need to try and get an even distribution of traffic routes.
Floor - primary schools places are also an issue, secondary school places are even worse in North Swindon. More houses will make it worse for getting into local schools – someone living within half mile of school is not guaranteed a place in the school. North Orbital Shopping Centre is grid locked on a regular basis, there seems to be no concern about quality of life.
Cllr Vera Tomlinson – we were instrumental in getting this school we are all sat in. We have the same concern if this planning application goes in. Our priority has been to get primary places sorted out as there have been a lot of young families were moving in. Now we need to turn our attention to secondary places.
Floor – I have a daughter in the nursery in this school, but I cannot get her a place in the school due to sibling rules. I was told that the school is in a ‘super catchment’ for whole of North Swindon.
Cllr Vera Tomlinson – there is a means of appeal and I will help you if you want my help.
Floor – big concern about secondary places, my child probably won’t get in to Isambard, might end up at Hreod which is miles away.
Phil Smith – developers will have to pay for primary / secondary provision.
Floor – Redhouse has the same issues / concerns – traffic / safety, etc. There were 150 complaints against proposed Tadpole Farm development and only 2 submissions in favour, one of which was the developer.
Steph Exell – time is moving on and we are getting near to when we must end the meeting – can people ask their questions and we will compile a list to get answered.
List of questions from floor –
- Eastbury Way is not to be opened to Tadpole Farm traffic – the argument used was due to the amount of on street parking. Is the lack of on street parking the reason for Oakhurst Way being proposed to take the traffic?
- Is Tadpole Lane to be upgraded as a road? Who would pay for it if it was? What about the Route 45 cycle path – this is the worst stretch of it.
- Why can’t all traffic be routed up the hill to the A419 and not go through Oakhurst Way at all.
- Concerns that traffic on Oakhurst Way is already too bad without the extra traffic being added. Oakhurst Way is already constantly busy, particularly during rush hours. There is a risk that it will become a completely stationary queue.
- Top table represents all in the room - is it time for us to tell the developers that you cannot start any new estate until all existing issues resolved – e.g. parking, ditches, flooding, traffic etc We all pay Council Tax to be represented – it is time we said enough is enough. Unfinished touches on existing estates that are years late need to be finished off.
- The Clifford Meadow SSSI site – is it under threat of development?
- Will extra traffic along Garsington Drive have a negative impact on the SSSI site, added late in the day, pavement only on one side, not designed as a cut through?
- Traffic at Cross Lanes / Hayes Knoll – what is going to happen to this junction after the development? The cut through to Cricklade is dangerous, this is an unclassified road yet is has an average speed of 50mph.
- Concerns about safety of children on Oakhurst Way – no crossings at the moment, just plenty of tactile paving. Who is going to represent safety of children on this?
- Question to the Officers – we have heard a lot about mitigation measures, but what we want is for it all to be put in layman terms. Most of this does not mean much as it is all in technical jargon.
Cllr Vera Tomlinson – a crossing is to be installed on Oakhurst Way in March this year.
Phil Smith – I agree, we sometimes lapse into technical jargon out of habit. We do need to make sure everything is more understandable.
Steph Exell – we need to think of the way forward now. We have asked for your contact details so we can keep you in touch with what is going on. We are happy to give advice on how to write letters to protest against the Core Strategy. We have many valid planning reasons for objecting to Tadpole Farm. Crest Nicholson has started their PR process over this development and will be talking to community groups to try and convince them it is a good idea.
Thanks to officers, Councillors and residents for their time this evening.
Meeting closed 21:10.
